法國社會學家、政治經濟學家，復旦發展研究院訪問學者Nathan Sperber的研究橫跨比較政治經濟學、國家資本動態與綠色產業政策的制度基礎三大領域，致力于探索國家權力與市場機制的深層互動。

作為"國家-金融紐帶"領域的專家，Sperber當前正針對歐洲、美國與中國在國家主導的電池產業資金支持模式展開對比研究，剖析不同制度框架下的產業政策效能。在復旦大學的專訪中，Sperber基于其多學科研究背景及在復旦大學（2017-2021）的博士后研究經歷，分享了他關于國家權力、金融體系與綠色工業化進程交互作用的獨到見解。

Q1：

You have a profound connection with Fudan University. What appeals to you most in Fudan?

Sperber:My connection to Fudan owes a lot to serendipity. I first came here in 2009. At that time, I had completed my master's degree at Oxford University and wasn't quite sure what to do next. Instead of looking for a long-term job or starting a PhD immediately, I decided to take what is known in the West as a gap year. So, I chose to come to Fudan to be a language teacher in the French Department.

I really enjoyed the atmosphere at Fudan, whether it was the campus, the students, the faculty, and everything else. That year, I became intensely interested in China, so I started to learn Chinese by myself with the aim to explore topics related to China's economic and social development. That is the time when my future plans came about, and that's how I became an academic.

Q2：

What is your recent research during the FDDI Visiting Scholar Program?

Sperber:The current research project I plan to undertake at FDDI concerns green industrial policies. Essentially, many countries in the world have plans for a green transition and decarbonization in order to reduce fossil fuel consumption and address climate change. In particular, in the past decade, the European Union has put forward many green industrial targets, but it has often failed to reach them. One example of European industrial policy failure to date is batteries, which represent about half of the value added in electric vehicles.

China, on the other hand, has been the most successful country in this sector. So I'm trying to compare the experience of Europe, China and the United States and understand the factors that have shaped these different policy outcomes.

Q3：

During your postdoctoral tenure at Fudan University (2017–2021), you led the research project Statist Development and Varieties of Financialization. How has this experience shaped your current comparative study on the state-finance nexus and green industrial policy across regions?

Sperber:In my postdoctoral research, I attempted to understand how the expansion of the financial sector across the world has had different implications for the effectiveness of development policy. In most Western countries, this expansion of finance, also known as "financialization", has weakened the governments' ability to steer national economies. In China and some other developing countries, however, growing financial institutions and financial flows have become a major channel for the government to implement its policies. I was interested in examining this contrast.

This is what I mean by the state-finance nexus, the connection between the state and, for instance, banks, investment funds, capital markets, and so on. This connection is very strong in China and weaker in many other countries. And this could be one of the keys to understand the success of China's green industrial policies.

Q4：

How does your research complement Fudan's academic framework, and what specific collaborative initiatives do you plan to pursue?

Sperber:FDDI has a research program on "national development impetus" at the moment. I find it very stimulating because it's not only about the state's capacity to enact development but also about looking at networks of institutions, which FDDI researchers call "national development impetus chains". These chains of institutions, actors and organizations vary across countries. As long as these chains display efficient functional complementarities, they can promote national development. The state-finance nexus can also be seen as a developmental chain or network of this kind. So I think my research resonates a lot with the current research program at FDDI. I'm looking forward to more exchanges on this topic.

Q5：

As a European scholar fluent in Chinese, how do you position your role—as an "external observer" or a "cross-cultural bridge"? How does this dual perspective enhance your research, particularly in analyzing Sino-European competition in strategic industries like EV batteries?

Sperber:I don't feel entirely like an external observer of China because I've spent many years here, and this experience has really shaped my own worldview. It enables me to understand parts of both the European and Chinese perspectives on some issues.

To take the example of my research, in Europe, public debates on industrial policy are often focused on issues of using the state budget. Whenever one industrial policy is put forward, everybody asks the question, "How much taxpayers' money should be used for this?" I think this is quite a narrow perspective that is quite typical in Europe. Since I'm familiar with the Chinese perspective on these issues, I realize that taxpayers' money is perhaps not the central issue, and that many other institutions, including financial sector institutions, can play an essential role. In China, the relationship between the government and economic actors is much broader, both at the national and local levels.

Q6：

As a distinguished scholar with a multidisciplinary academic background in sociology, how do you view Fudan University's push for "New Liberal Arts"?

Sperber:In my understanding, "New Liberal Arts" refers not only to interdisciplinarity between humanities and social sciences but also between humanities, social sciences and STEM subjects. However, if specialties or disciplines have to be reformed, it must be done carefully. It cannot be just a passing fashion or a fad. It is a very promising reform agenda, yet it does require much reflection and cannot be improvised.

Q7：

Based on your academic research and experiences at Fudan University, what advice would you give to current students?

Sperber:I suppose there would be two pieces of advice. One would be to value intellectual curiosity. Students have a lot of obligations, classes, distractions, and pressures in finding a job or moving to the next step of their studies. However, they should still aspire to be passionate about the issues or topics that matter the most to them, and utilize the opportunities in Fudan to pursue their interests deeply through readings, classes and exchanges with like-minded people, because this environment here is very favourable to this kind of intellectual nurturing.

My other piece of advice would be to value international experience. Fudan offers many opportunities for exchange programs and language learning, which can be very precious. At the level of personal development, having international experiences and perspectives can enrich our mind. And it doesn't have to be exchanges with Western countries. After all, more than half of human beings in the world are not Westerners, and they're not Chinese, they're from all the other countries in the world.

來源 | Fudan University

作者 | FENG Zihan

排版 | 胡珂玚